Should the Flag be flown at half mast because of the Va Tech killings?

[innersanctum]

Before you jump down my throat on this take a moment to think about it. If it didn't happen in your state, it didn't change your daily lives and the people killed weren't of some kind of celebrity (political, hollywood, music or otherwise), why should the entire country fly the National Ensign at half mast?

It was a tragedy but I think we may have overreacted by flying all flags in the country at half-mast.

Mods: Could you add the poll question?

[Marine09]

I see where you are coming from but, like you said it was a tragedy. I believe we did the same thing for september 11, 2001 and that was in New York.

[hmxsgt]

I see where you are coming from but, like you said it was a tragedy. I believe we did the same thing for september 11, 2001 and that was in New York.

That was certainly more of a National Tragedy.

I agree Santum, look at the soldiers who die in Iraq just about every day, we do not fly half mast for them

[Trapper]

I think it should be a choice, verses a directive. I agree with you Steve, the Governor should not mandate it.

[V8403]

I agree it should be a choice to fly half mast in honor of the dead, and not mandated by the state, the state of Ill has even asked the churches, and state and fed offices to ring bells etc at 11:00 in honor now is that going too far also.

[gunga55]

In VA yes it should be flown at half mast. To make it mandatory no. If one of the students was from an area it is nice to fly at half mast but no. If a drunk hit a bus load of kids sending the bus off a cliff (which has happened) would the entire nation go into mourning. NO and the kids wouldn't receive degrees
I feel bad for the families for the lost of their kid but I feel as bad for the families for the media circus that has ensued

[Trapper]

In VA yes it should be flown at half mast. To make it mandatory no. If one of the students was from an area it is nice to fly at half mast but no. If a drunk hit a bus load of kids sending the bus off a cliff (which has happened) would the entire nation go into mourning. NO and the kids wouldn't receive degrees
I feel bad for the families for the lost of their kid but I feel as bad for the families for the media circus that has ensued
Good point, G-man! It is getting crazy as Cho.

[hankhoffman]

Our Base received a message from DC stating that the Flag was to be put at half staff on all US property. I don't have a problem with this. We have lowered it for Federal Employees like Judges that I have never even seen the name before.

[Biggie Smallz]

I think it should be your choice. the govenor shouldnt make it manditory.


R/
POOLee Miller

[nightwolf]

I voted Yes and I was... Well... Shocked as to see that a majority of people said No or I don't care either way. So I was intrigued by the explainations and I must say I agree with Gunga.

[BeirutBill]

it's a local tragedy. not a National tragedy

[Trapper]

I odn't even think it should be mandetory anywhere, really. It is a tradgedy, though. I just wish the media would let it go instead of making this scumbag a martyr.

[countrybabe007]

Well i think it should be in the VA tech area.

[Trapper]

Well i think it should be in the VA tech area.
So you think it should be mandatory? Please explain.

[gunga55]

Well i think it should be in the VA tech area.
at the school yes even through out VA

[Trapper]

at the school yes even through out VA
Playing advocate here, why should it be mandetory Why should it be ordered?

[gunga55]

At the school to show respect for your fellow students, at VA state offices because VA tech is a state owned school. Out side of that there is NO reason to mandatory half flag. When the VA hospitals are mandatoried to half flag for people who aren't even veterans something is wrong This shouldn't be done there except for Veterans or death of a former Commander and Chief (does serving as president make you a veteran)

[Trapper]

At the school to show respect for your fellow students, at VA state offices because VA tech is a state owned school. Out side of that there is NO reason to mandatory half flag. When the VA hospitals are mandatoried to half flag for people who aren't even veterans something is wrong This shouldn't be done there except for Veterans or death of a former Commander and Chief (does serving as president make you a veteran)
I still do not see a reason to make it mandetory. Morally, I think the School at least should. I can even say that for the State, since it is a state school. I do not agree it should be mandetory. That goes against the Freedom of Expression. As for serving as president make oyu a veteran, that is a good question for another thread. I am sure John will find something for that!

[hmxsgt]

I understand the touchyness of this situation. I don't see why it should be made mandatory though. Yes Morally it makes sense. Take for instance this past weekend here in our community 4 teenagers were killed in a car crash leaving deaths in families across 3 different towns. Should we as a state be reguired to fly the flag at half mast? Should the town they were killed in be mandatory? how about the 3 different towns, or the county? What is the call for mandatory half mast 4 dead teens, 32 dead teens? How about 9 american soldiers who were just killed in Iraq? If anything that should be made mandatory. I understand that these kids didn't ask to be killed or did they deserve to be killed, but look at our brave soldiers every day who do put their lives on the line.

[gunga55]

I understand the touchiness of this situation. I don't see why it should be made mandatory though. Yes Morally it makes sense. Take for instance this past weekend here in our community 4 teenagers were killed in a car crash leaving deaths in families across 3 different towns. Should we as a state be required to fly the flag at half mast? Should the town they were killed in be mandatory? how about the 3 different towns, or the county? What is the call for mandatory half mast 4 dead teens, 32 dead teens? How about 9 American soldiers who were just killed in Iraq? If anything that should be made mandatory. I understand that these kids didn't ask to be killed or did they deserve to be killed, but look at our brave soldiers every day who do put their lives on the line.
Here Here In Michigan when a military personnel is killed in Iraq we run the flag at half mast for the day,as well we should.
I think we may have started on a slippery slope.Would it be mandatory if 32 students were killed in a bus accident. would it be any less of a loss for the families. Why not because some poor girl was killed after she left a club one night. Why not fly flags half mast for her. Lets just chop all our poles in half and be done with it.

[Trapper]

Here Here In Michigan when a military personnel is killed in Iraq we run the flag at half mast for the day,as well we should.
I think we may have started on a slippery slope.Would it be mandatory if 32 students were killed in a bus accident. would it be any less of a loss for the families. Why not because some poor girl was killed after she left a club one night. Why not fly flags half mast for her. Lets just chop all our poles in half and be done with it.But if they chopped all the poles in half, then they would all be full staff again...

[gunga55]

OK so maybe my lets just permanently fly flags at half mass inference wasn't all that great I will try and do better.

I will now wear a ribbon of shame there is a 80's reference for you old guys

[V8403]

OK so maybe my lets just permanently fly flags at half mass inference wasn't all that great I will try and do better.

I will now wear a ribbon of shame there is a 80's reference for you old guys



ok ok now what color would that be this color??this color???this color??, or this, or should it be t-pink :D

[gunga55]

Maybe some baby diaper brown

[V8403]

Some interesting information to add to this thread which applies and helps gets us back on track.

From Chapter 1 -#7 of title 4 of the U.S Code

§ 7. Position and manner of display

(m) The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day the flag should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff. The flag shall be flown at half-staff 30 days from the death of the President or a former President; 10 days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress. The flag shall be flown at half-staff on Peace Officers Memorial Day, unless that day is also Armed Forces Day. As used in this subsection—


some other information of interest is as follows

In the U.S., the flag may be flown at half-staff at the orders of the President, usually as a result of the death of a significant government figure, but special exceptions can be made.

The period varies, but the flag is generally flown at half-staff for 30 days after the death of a current or former president.

The Governor of a given state may order flags in that state to be flown at half-staff to mark a death or event that is particularly locally significant, but other states will not necessarily follow suit.

On Memorial Day, flags will be flown at half-staff for part of the day:

[gunga55]

Some interesting information to add to this thread which applies and helps gets us back on track.
As always good stuff. I still didn't see anything in there about non state personnel and national mourning/ all flags at half mast

As another note drove by McDonald's the other day US, MI and City flag all half mast McDonald flag full mast. I was going to call and complain but got busy, and haven't been by that way since.

[Trapper]

As always good stuff. I still didn't see anything in there about non state personnel and national mourning/ all flags at half mast

As another note drove by McDonald's the other day US, MI and City flag all half mast McDonald flag full mast. I was going to call and complain but got busy, and haven't been by that way since.
Do it anyway! NO flag, esp. a Corporate flag should be senior to the National Ensign! That is almost worth a road trip to bop some heads!

[V8403]

some other information of interest is as follows

The Governor of a given state may order flags in that state to be flown at half-staff to mark a death or event that is particularly locally significant,

but other states will not necessarily follow suit.

[innersanctum]

So I wonder if they will finally raise the flags around here. I sent an email to the local government officials about their lowering of the flag and copied the text from this thread with it's references. We will see if they start coming up finally.

[Trapper]

some other information of interest is as follows

The Governor of a given state may order flags in that state to be flown at half-staff to mark a death or event that is particularly locally significant,

but other states will not necessarily follow suit.
They can order it, or request it? What is this from, John?

[Trapper]

So I wonder if they will finally raise the flags around here. I sent an email to the local government officials about their lowering of the flag and copied the text from this thread with it's references. We will see if they start coming up finally.
Were therer any Illinois citizens as students there? We had a local victim.

[V8403]

Trapper there were no Illinois citizens that I am aware of but here is some additional imformation you requested

http://www.usflag.org/nffhalfstaff.html (http://www.usflag.org/nffhalfstaff.html)
the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law.

http://www.classbrain.com/artfree/publish/article_195.shtml (http://www.classbrain.com/artfree/publish/article_195.shtml)
A relatively easy way to remember when to fly the United States flag at half-staff is to consider when the whole nation is in mourning. These periods of mourning are proclaimed either by the president of the United States, for national remembrance, or the governor of a state or territory, for local remembrance, in the event of a death of a member or former member of the federal, state or territorial government or judiciary. The heads of departments and agencies of the federal government may also order that the flag be flown at half-staff on buildings, grounds and naval vessels under their jurisdiction


The flag shall be flown at half-staff upon Executive Order of the President after any other tragic events. Only the President and state governors have the authority to order the flag to be flown at half-staff.

The current Law regarding the flying of the United States flag (including language specific to the flying of the flag at half-staff) is in the United Stated Code , Title 36, Chapter 10, Section 175.

[innersanctum]

Were therer any Illinois citizens as students there? We had a local victim.

I don't think it should have been flown at anything other than full staff after Va Tech.

It further advances my feelings what the US Code says about flying the flag at half mast. The kids weren't even government officials. I know there is a way for the President to make an exception and even a governor but there are bigger tragedies in the world today than what happened there. It sounds like I am making light of what happened there and that is not the case. We just are not making a big enough deal for other things that are happening the world that warrant the same respect to be paid.

[V8403]

and with that I agree we did go overboard here

[hmxsgt]

I don't think it should have been flown at anything other than full staff after Va Tech.

It further advances my feelings what the US Code says about flying the flag at half mast. The kids weren't even government officials. I know there is a way for the President to make an exception and even a governor but there are bigger tragedies in the world today than what happened there. It sounds like I am making light of what happened there and that is not the case. We just are not making a big enough deal for other things that are happening the world that warrant the same respect to be paid.

Much more important things

[Marine09]

Originally Posted by innersanctum http://www.usmchangout.com/msg/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.usmchangout.com/msg/showthread.php?p=26232#post26232)
I don't think it should have been flown at anything other than full staff after Va Tech.

It further advances my feelings what the US Code says about flying the flag at half mast. The kids weren't even government officials. I know there is a way for the President to make an exception and even a governor but there are bigger tragedies in the world today than what happened there. It sounds like I am making light of what happened there and that is not the case. We just are not making a big enough deal for other things that are happening the world that warrant the same respect to be paid.

I agree with this. Yes, it was a tragedy, but we have to focus on our surroundings.

[kori1968]

I think the flag should be flown at half mast everyday for all my brothers and sisters that are giving their lives over seas, until they all come home safe.

[Trapper]

I think the flag should be flown at half mast everyday for all my brothers and sisters that are giving their lives over seas, until they all come home safe.
I disagree with this statement. They are defending our flag. Like I said before, that is why I fly mine high all the time, to honor them and pay tribute to them.

[gunga55]

I would agree with trapper home town and state sure the flags should be flown at half mast
Now the Queen of England is going to VT to pay her respect that is just to much.

[Trapper]

I would agree with trapper home town and state sure the flags should be flown at half mast
Now the Queen of England is going to VT to pay her respect that is just to much.Oh, ok, so now there will be high profile people on campus for people to shoot up. Nice. Nappy headed Queen.

[gysgt22_verhelst]

They didn't even die for their country. :(

[odin03111975]

no. this is a civilian school, not anything to do with the government:mad:

[usmc93]

Auctually VT is one of the nations ROTC schools. It is part of the cadet corps program where the students live in seperate barracks

[gunga55]

That may be but was any cadets killed and had they taken the oath.

[usmc93]

That I do not know.

SEMPER FI!
John

[packy46]

I'm saying yes, they are still our brothers,our youth, and our future.
Do that for them.
S/F
Tim
But...
Fly it high at 8th & I.

[GinaKLaughlin]

I see both sides I mean I think that it should be flown at half mast but it shouldn't be mandated. Flying the flag at half mast is supposed to be honoring those lost. If you are forced to do it, is it still honor that your giving them, or is it just a formality in fear of punishment? And I also believe that the men and women that are lost fighting for our country are much more "worthy" of the honor that this gives

[brendans_girl89]

Ok heres a question for you all: Many Americans flew their flags at half staff after 9/11. So what is wrong with flying them at half staff after the VA massacre?

[innersanctum]

I think the President declared that one. Not sure if he did with VA Tech.

[brendans_girl89]

I think the President declared that one. Not sure if he did with VA Tech.
I know that Bush ordered that they fly at half staff five days after 9/11 in order to mourn the death of Former President Gerald Ford.

[goldfish67]

Man, you guys sure changed my mind. I was going to say yes but, after reading your posts, I am thinking differently. I would have to agree with all of you. Why are people worried about flying the flag at half staff about the VA Tech massacre, but no one is thinking about the soldiers dying in Iraq. I just don't understand it.
Goldfish

[brendans_girl89]

but no one is thinking about the soldiers dying in Iraq. I just don't understand it.
Goldfish

thats where i have to disagree with you there. I think about them all the time, one of my best friends who I have grown up with is on his 4th tour in Iraq and everytime I hear on the news more soldiers and Marines have died my heart aches for their families.