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trlrtrash13
July 1st, 2006, 11:30
Here we go again. Last week, the New York Times revealed the existence of a secret government program in which counterterrorism officials "examined banking transactions involving thousands of Americans and others in the United States." And Republican representative Peter King ain't happy about it.

"We're at war, and for the Times to release information about secret operations and methods is treasonous," said King. He said yesterday that he is urging Attorney General Alberto Gonzales to "begin an investigation and prosecution of The New York Times - the reporters, the editors and the publisher."

Also yesterday, Times executive editor Bill Keller explained in a letter why the paper ran the story. Keller opened the letter by providing a basic explination about where the paper was coming from: "The question we start with as journalists is not 'why publish?' but 'why would we withhold information of significance?' We have sometimes done so, holding stories or editing out details that could serve those hostile to the U.S. But we need a compelling reason to do so."

And Keller writes that the Times didn't get one here. After listening "patiently and attentively" to the concerns of Administration officials who wanted the Times not to publish the story, Keller writes that the Times found their central argument – that "international bankers would stop cooperating, would resist, if this program saw the light of day" – "puzzling." The banks have a legal obligation to provide the information thanks to subpoena, he notes – and besides, if "the program is legal, highly effective, and well protected against invasion of privacy, the bankers should have little trouble defending it."

Keller concludes: "I can appreciate that other conscientious people could have gone through the process I've outlined above and come to a different conclusion. But nobody should think that we made this decision casually, with any animus toward the current Administration, or without fully weighing the issues."

As you may have guessed, conservative bloggers aren't buying Keller's explanation. Michelle Malkin has a roundup here, and memorandum is also doing its thing. There is much too much reaction to the letter to summarize in this space, so I suggest you check out the sources linked above if you're interested in finding out what they're saying. Perhaps unsurprisingly, I generally side with the Times on this one, although I do agree with many bloggers that the letter had a whiff of arrogance to it, though that's largely a quibble. In any event, at least one blogger sees a silver lining to this latest Times kafuffle. Writes Dan Kennedy: "More than anything, the mere fact that [Keller] believes journalists must explain themselves to the public shows the how deeply the notion of transparency has taken root."

How can the Justice Department go after the Times without a court battle over our 1st ammendmant rights? I think if we were to try the times for treason based on the fact that they put information sensative to our national security in a place where our enemy could easily access it during a time of war we could accomplish this. Of course, the times and others would say it was an assult on their rights, but the only precident the case would establish, if won, would be that sensative info must be handled with respect and treated as such.

hankhoffman
July 6th, 2006, 16:50
I think this case should be taken forward. The Press should not be able to print anything they feel is good reading. Someone could get away by this information getting out. I don't know who should be the one to say what is printed and what is not, maybe the President.

innersanctum
July 7th, 2006, 11:00
This shouldn't be any surpise to anyone. This is how the government works. They don't like something, they shut it down. It is very typical of the current administration. I hate it but it appears that I am unable to do much about it so I just roll with the punches.

Someday, I will stand up and say "I told you so!"

Someday, I will be considered a prophet in the downfall of our civil liberties.

innersanctum
July 7th, 2006, 11:01
One other thing, if it's classified, it's illegal to print it. That is the law. If it can be obtained legally, it is the press's responsibility to report it. If it shouldn't be printed, then it should be classified.

V8403
July 8th, 2006, 22:26
Someday, I will be considered a prophet in the downfall of our civil liberties


HOW TRUE
and now as the old saying goes "GIVE ME A BREAK" :2cents:

innersanctum
July 9th, 2006, 13:50
HOW TRUE
and now as the old saying goes "GIVE ME A BREAK" :2cents:

note the green text. Implied sarcasm. *LOL*

hankhoffman
July 11th, 2006, 15:29
OPSEC covers some information that is not classified. You can put together parts of public information and do as much damage as if you had classified information.

SEMPER FI
July 29th, 2006, 13:46
But how do you know what is public information and what is classfied???????????????????????

innersanctum
July 31st, 2006, 09:24
But how do you know what is public information and what is classfied???????????????????????

Exactly. I would say that if I can access it, it's not classified since I don't have a clearance. If I can't access it, then I would say it's classified.

Not much room for error there.


If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking is freedom."
Dwight Eisenhower

hankhoffman
August 2nd, 2006, 15:16
You could access classified information from someone who has access to it and then gives it to you. Do you then have the right to print it as you see fit?

I don't think that the information that was printed was that big of a deal, but if they do it this time they will do it again. Maybe next time it is a big deal.

Green Man
August 3rd, 2006, 10:55
So Hank, do you propose eliminating Freedom of the Press? Journalists have guidelines, believe it or not, and they would not have printed this information if it was deemed critical. Point blank. You can't hate the media just because they expose the current administration for their stupidity/arrogance/intolerance/corruption.
The media had a field day with Clinton too, but he wasn't trying to install a theocracy

hankhoffman
August 3rd, 2006, 17:07
That is not what I said, they can bash the Bush Administration all they want. I have no problem the media keeping the government in check. I do have issues with them impacting the security of the people.

Everything is not and should not be public knowledge!! We will never win another war with everything shown on TV or in the papers. This crap started in NAM and has not stopped. They enemy knows that if they drag the thing out the media and the US Public will cry and put pressure on the government to pull us out.

To win a war somethings have to be done that are not fair or nice. You have to hit them hard and fast. You have to own all the ground and kill most of the bad guys (so they do not come back to kill you later). The US Public is not ready to see that stuff, so they will demand that the troops come home. We will be in Iraq for years to come and fighting some of the people that have been let go from the detention centers.

The US will be attacked again it is only a matter of time. I just hope that it will not take many more times for the US Public to wake up.

Green Man
August 8th, 2006, 10:21
Well, I agree that not everything should be public. Quite so. The question is where to draw the line? And how do you keep things secret in a world where many have a camera, cell phone, internet access, etc. and are more than willing to sell their pictures/stories to the highest bidder?
I also agree that the media tends to be one-dimensional a lot of the time, but I don't know how that would be able to be changed. It's not like a person can truly trust another person or group not to spread private information.

hankhoffman
August 8th, 2006, 16:08
I understand your point. This would be hard to change at this time. We should all be careful of what we say and to who we say it to. The world is a different place and people are looking to hurt us everyday.

Thanks for you thoughts on this issue.

BeirutBill
August 15th, 2006, 08:33
the Hearst empire used the tag-line "all the news thats fit to print"

we (the American public) do NOT NEED to know everything thats going on.

i can remember back when the chief executive could screw around on his wife and the news media didn't report it even though they all knew about it. I'm not saying cheating is right, but i am giving an example, reporters make bad choices to sell papers!

Bill

innersanctum
August 17th, 2006, 11:41
You could access classified information from someone who has access to it and then gives it to you. Do you then have the right to print it as you see fit?

I don't think that the information that was printed was that big of a deal, but if they do it this time they will do it again. Maybe next time it is a big deal.

Splittin' hairs now, aren't we Hank?

hankhoffman
August 17th, 2006, 19:20
Yes, but this is not a black and white issue.