Why Canb't We Keep Up?

[poghmahone]

:rolleyes:As the most technologically advanced nation on the planet as well as the strongest, why is it that we wait for problems to occur before having a contingency plan to combat it. For example, when Rumsfield was the Sect'y of Defense, he didn't seek better transportation for our troops with upgraded armor that could deflect shaped charges. Like the panzerfaust of WWII, the shaped charges went straight through armor. Unlike the RPGs that are pretty useless against reactive armor, the shaped IEDs are devastating. How come Rumsfield was able to commit 1,000's of unarmored vehicles such as humvees into the narrow streets of Baghdad and other cities without knowing the playing field. Doesn't the government have a think tank that supposed the enemy's strength and weakness? If the adminsitration had given better thought and preparation to the needs of the men instead of trying out a new doctrine in warfare, why are we still getting severe head injuries like there's no tomorrow? :banghead:

[lima33doc]

The problem is that has always been like that. It always takes tragedy to change a design. You figure there are literaly hundreds of people who come up with new military hardware all thetime, but how much of it really works, and is cost effective enough to put on the field? The problem is we don't know. You can guess and blame it on the administration all day long if you want to, but without being in Congress (who has to approve the finincaing for the stuff) or somewhere that designs and tests new equipment, we will never know the truth. we are still better prepared and better equipped for the most part than out enemies, and much better than any time in history.

[gunga55]

Like he said a number of time you go to war with what you have not what you wished you had. To further answer you question watch Star Wars as they have been showing it a lot as of late. How is that a small group of rebels with little or no support took down the Evil Empire. Was it because the storm troopers didn't have proper equipment. Some times a tech advantage doesn't mean you will win. You were in Nam what happened there? Some guys in pajamas with sharp pointy sticks gave us a run for our money. We will proably never see another WWII European theater type war where its Army against Army with objective captured equal winning a war.

[hankhoffman]

Good posts Dan and Lima.

Winning a war is done by the tactics that we choose to use. If we try to fight a clean war we will never win a war again. To win you have to kill the enemy and take the will of others to fight and that can not be done in a bloodless war. We could have had a shorter war in VN if we would have bombed a few cities in the north flat. Some say that China would have jumped in but I don't think they were that dumb. You have to make the cost of fighting so high that they quit. If they don't care about the cost you wipe them out. Look back through history and you will see that we are still dealing with groups that we did not finish off when we had the chance. Lebanons (Hisbula?) for one!! Rest in Pease Brothers

[Trapper]

It seems that we are always running behind the 8 ball. (Not the one Erik uses for dates...)

It would be pretty tough to predict what the enemy is going to be like, plus, as we've seen in this war, they evolved too. The new improved shaped charge AEDs are far worse than the ones we had in the beginning, and those were used becasue the RPGs were not doing the job. Better success with AED'. s then we uparmor to beat that, so they upgrade thier bombs. So I do not think we could ever catch up, let alone get ahead of that game. I can't see how we could.

[lima33doc]

[quote=Trapper;72318]It seems that we are always running behind the 8 ball. (Not the one Erik uses for dates...)

quote] Naah...he is relying on Matchmaking Mother...lol

[Trapper]

[quote=Trapper;72318]It seems that we are always running behind the 8 ball. (Not the one Erik uses for dates...)

quote] Naah...he is relying on Matchmaking Mother...lol
Didn't Rkadian( don't know her real name) already say no to him about her daughter?Keep up, Dave...(or is it me that needs to?)

[lima33doc]

[quote=lima33doc;72319]
Didn't Rkadian( don't know her real name) already say no to him about her daughter?Keep up, Dave...(or is it me that needs to?) No...she was the one that suggested it in the first place...when she said no, she was talking about the Magic 8Ball...lol

[gunga55]

To funny CJ

it is said that the generals always try and fight the last war. It is after all human nature even if one would strive not to. I was thinking about it the other day All of us 38-50 give or take that served late 70' and through the 80's the tatics that we learned are for naught now. We were trained to fight the great Soviet invasion. Those who were butter bars at the time are now generals or at least have a bird on their shoulder. Most of their career was using that tatic. Gulf War part 1 did nothing to change that thinking. In fact it fit very nicely into that training and mind set. So now we are fighting a Urban war against gorillia tatics its not even close to the same thing. Sure we all had our little Urban combat training but it was aimed more for a Nero excersise of pulling a Embassy out of someplace not for long substained war. So don't beat up the top brass to bad

[hankhoffman]

Dan,

I don't think it is the Top Brass as much as the American people and those inside the beltway of DC. Most Americans do not have the nerve to allow us to win a war. When they cry, DC reacts by pulling back on the Generals.

[gunga55]

I blame soda pop ever since they allowed pop in schools the country has been falling apart

It is true the bad part is its a few scare mongers that lead the sheep. We weren't even to Baghdad and people were already comparing Iraq to Vietnam. Were just there for oil look at all our poor boys getting slaughtered by a 4th rate army, pull out run away brave sir Robin

[rkdian]

And admit defeat?? Are you serious, Dan? I couldn't disagree more with a pull out right now. That is what George Sr. did. Look where that got us.

[gunga55]

Now how do you get that I am an advocate for early withdrawal. I could see you disagreeing with the soda pop part you would be wrong of course but I could see it.

[rkdian]

I blame soda pop ever since they allowed pop in schools the country has been falling apart

It is true the bad part is its a few scare mongers that lead the sheep. We weren't even to Baghdad and people were already comparing Iraq to Vietnam. Were just there for oil look at all our poor boys getting slaughtered by a 4th rate army, pull out run away brave sir Robin

This is where I got that impression. Ironically, I do agree to the soda pop part if you extend it to other things that we make available to our young people through the school systems.

[lima33doc]

This is where I got that impression. Ironically, I do agree to the soda pop part if you extend it to other things that we make available to our young people through the school systems. Like a bad and ULTRA Liberal Anti-American Education...lmao

[rkdian]

That and availability to birth control, abortions, a lack of discipline due to restraints put on them, etc., etc., etc.

[gunga55]

run away brave sir Robin


For a understanding of that you must watch Montey Python quest for the Holy Grail. A movie that I highly recommend rent it and watch it don't get it online you miss the best part that way.

[epmosich]

[quote=lima33doc;72319]
Didn't Rkadian( don't know her real name) already say no to him about her daughter?Keep up, Dave...(or is it me that needs to?)
her real name is renee, and i'm gonna ask that magic 8 ball before any major decisions from now on...lol.
it nailed it right on the head with the whole heather thing...:offtopic:2cents:

[lima33doc]

[quote=Trapper;72321]
her real name is renee, and i'm gonna ask that magic 8 ball before any major decisions from now on...lol.
it nailed it right on the head with the whole heather thing...:offtopic:2cents:Even I tried to warn you E...and I don't even know Renees daughter...lol

[epmosich]

yeah, yeah, yeah...i need a girl thats almost an exact opposite of Sarah, and Heather seems to be WAY to similar to her....unfortunately

[Trapper]

At least you are not jumping the fence. Like we all said before, just wait to find another girl, and let Erik be Erik for a while. Do what you want to do with your money, your time. I don't see any problem with that, either...

[rkdian]

All good things come to those who wait. When you least expect it, that perfect woman will fall into your lap, Erik. Don't be so busy with the wrong one that you don't notice her when she does!

[lima33doc]

I agree...go be a Marine...get deployed, do all the crazy things with the guys. Do all the things you won't be able to remember later, or that will stick in your brain for the rest of your life.

[gunga55]

see now that is good advise if I have ever heard it.

[epmosich]

yep, i'll just be a typical marine...gosh thats hard, lets see...drink, meet a girl, go home, have her make breakfast, repeat the next night...do i got it? oh yeah i forgot KILL!!! lol

[lima33doc]

yep, i'll just be a typical marine...gosh thats hard, lets see...drink, meet a girl, go home, have her make breakfast, repeat the next night...do i got it? oh yeah i forgot KILL!!! lol No...skip the have her make breakfast...if you are going to enjoy things while you can, your friends should be dragging you home...and I do mean dragging. You should never be anywhere but the bar long enough to get breakfast...lmao

[rkdian]

Erik!! You know that is not what I meant!! Stop looking!! In the bar, church or anywhere!! Solo sex ain't the best, but it gets the job done if you must have sex. Try being friends, no strings, no hopes of the next level. If it happens anyway, then it is more likely to last. I want you to be one of the few who celebrate a 25th anniversary HAPPILY. LISTEN TO YOUR MOTHER YOUNG MAN!!! :)

[epmosich]

yes ma'am...i'll do that

[gunga55]

and remember all that is gold does not glitter and all who wonder are not lost.

I just wanted to throw that in but I guess it does make sense

[epmosich]

well for the record, i shine like the sun, and am not lost at all :)

[gunga55]

See now this is a prime example of hijacked thread. Then again its hard to keep up......

[epmosich]

nah, it's not hard to keep up, just go back a couple pages. lol

[gunga55]

Was staying with the title of the tread a play on words if you will

[epmosich]

ahh, that one went right over my head...lol

[fang]

I think you can thank our good buddy, Billy for that cluster "f".He pretty much cut the Military budget to Squat .1/3 of our troops were on food stamps,Equipment parked in the motorpool , broken down with no money in the budget to fix them,The list goes on and on. Weapons , ammo , upgrades , housing, medical ,aircraft , training ,ect-ect. They all took a hit ,For 8 years,that went on.Then...... an election ,George w.. Money started flowing into the Military. My two sons,(one stationed in Minot, one on the USS ENTERPRISE) got a raise.It was so bad in the military under clinton, that a lot of our service men and women, had to take off duty jobs, just to make ends meet. Many, chose not to re-enlist. But things started to change for the better, after bush.THEN Sept. 11, and we went to war, with what we had! Im shocked that you, a vet , would even ask such a question! Why don't you keep up with current events?

[gunga55]

good point Fang welcome aboard by the way. Those things were not widely published although I do remember hearing about the food stamps, now that you have reminded us.

[poghmahone]

Erik!! You know that is not what I meant!! Stop looking!! In the bar, church or anywhere!! Solo sex ain't the best, but it gets the job done if you must have sex. Try being friends, no strings, no hopes of the next level. If it happens anyway, then it is more likely to last. I want you to be one of the few who celebrate a 25th anniversary HAPPILY. LISTEN TO YOUR MOTHER YOUNG MAN!!! :)

I will be celebrating my 24th wedding anniversary in August. My marriage is one of the successes in my life. :schilder017:

[poghmahone]

I think you can thank our good buddy, Billy for that cluster "f".He pretty much cut the Military budget to Squat .1/3 of our troops were on food stamps,Equipment parked in the motorpool , broken down with no money in the budget to fix them,The list goes on and on. Weapons , ammo , upgrades , housing, medical ,aircraft , training ,ect-ect. They all took a hit ,For 8 years,that went on.Then...... an election ,George w.. Money started flowing into the Military. My two sons,(one stationed in Minot, one on the USS ENTERPRISE) got a raise.It was so bad in the military under clinton, that a lot of our service men and women, had to take off duty jobs, just to make ends meet. Many, chose not to re-enlist. But things started to change for the better, after bush.THEN Sept. 11, and we went to war, with what we had! Im shocked that you, a vet , would even ask such a question! Why don't you keep up with current events?

FANG, Since you're so easily shocked, let me spell it out for you: A S A V E T, I A M S H O C K E D T H A T Y O U T H I N K I AM N O T U P W I T H C U R R E N T E V E N T S. I AM S E R I O U S 'C U Z AS A
V I E T N A M V E T, W E H A D E Q U I P M E N T T H A T L A S T
S A W A C T I V E U S A G E I N WWII O R K O R E A. i W O U L D
H A V E T H O U G H T B Y N O W T H A T W E H A D T A K E N
O U R H E A D O U T O F O U R A * * B Y N O W & I M P R O V E D
A S Y S T E M B A D L Y I N N E E D O F R E S T R U C T U R I N G.

I don't rely on what the media feeds us, rather I rely on what I hear from cousins and nephews serving abroad.

[gunga55]

The military always seems a little behind. It was 1985 before the Marines started to replace the Vietnam era equipment, and yes some of that was WWII or Korea equipment. Its said Generals fight the last war for a reason. The military as a whole tends toward the conservative side and as such tend toward slower change

[epmosich]

i missed something in my leave of absence, but i did see my name referenced in a quote a couple posts up tho. lol

[gunga55]

You know the really cool thing about this site Erik is that you can always go back and review the prior post in a thread.

[rkdian]

You know the really cool thing about this site Erik is that you can always go back and review the prior post in a thread.

A truer statement never made, sir! lmao!!

[epmosich]

yeah, but sometimes it's just easier to have someone just give u a readers digest version. lol

[Trapper]

yeah, but sometimes it's just easier to have someone just give u a readers digest version. lol
What, a Marine looking for an easy way out? WTF, over?

[gunga55]

I say. Erik you should be pummeled about the head and shoulders with a 3 day old fish. I know that Marines do more with less but it does not fit with this situation.

[Trapper]

I say. Erik you should be pummeled about the head and shoulders with a 3 day old fish. I know that Marines do more with less but it does not fit with this situation.
WOW!!! I think that is worse than my rusty butter knife!

[epmosich]

where do u all come up with this stuff? lol

[Trapper]

where do u all come up with this stuff? lol
To what stuff do you refer?

[gunga55]

I'm old a bit here a bit there recycle some really old jokes and call it good